Robert Brink - Writer

Cashing In On God: The Dave Carnie and Sean Cliver Interviews

December 14, 2005 | Skip To The Comments (2)

For my Cashing In On God article, the people I interviewed had lots of interesting and entertaining things to say. Since only a few quotes were pulled for the article, I figured y'all might want to read the full interviews, so I'll be posting them here, starting with Dave Carnie and Sean Cliver. More to follow.

Dave Carnie
March 2003

Can you think of any graphics or ads through the years, religious or sacrilegious, that you liked or disliked? Favorites?

Scott Bourne (Unbelievers) just gave Jesus a model. I really like that. Yet at the same time it makes me mad because I (Whale Cock) was going to give Satan a model. I still can, but I'll just look like I'm copying Scott. Which I'm not, because I thought of it first. At least I think I thought of it first. I thought of it before I saw his Jesus model anyway. But the impression people will have is that I'm just copying him. Kind of like any funky metal band that wears a mask these days will immediately be compared to Slipknot. I'm not down with that shit, yo. I'm a leader, not a follower. So no Satan model. Oh, but I liked 151's upside-down-cross board. The one that was mocking Zero's cross board. After our year of staff injuries at the hand of, I suspect, Satan and/or Jesus, however, I'm afraid to put it together and ride the damn thing. You know we burned a bible in the name of Satan? And then we all got injured. I got hit by a car. And my leg was broke into a bunch of little pieces. It sucked. But I can't figure out if it was Jesus or Satan that hit me. Was Jesus pissed that I burned his stupid Bible, or was Satan embarrassed that a buffoon like me would try and worship him and make a mockery of the ceremony? I don't know, but one of those assholes was sitting on the shoulder of that kid that was driving the big, black Ford Excursion that ran my ass over.

Is religion/spirituality in skateboarding as just another way to sell boards by throwing religious images or figures on them? Or by using passages from the bible in ads, etc? Is it a way of expressing beliefs and enlightening others or cashing in on something that is sacred and deeply personal? Or both? Do you think it is a shock value, “rock ‘n roll” type thing or is it the sincere belief in religion and the desire to share that with the skaters? And finally, is religion “fashion?”

It's all of those things and more. How's that for a vague answer for a vague question? First, no one puts out a board that they don't want to sell. Or at least create to entertain. Second, religion is, obviously, probably the most controversial subject humans have to deal with since it purports to be the sentry at the gates between life and death, and we all know controversy sells. So obviously it's going to be a subject people are going to play off of no matter what their agenda. Have you ever microwaved a melon? And then cut a hole in one end and tape hair around the hole?

Why would (Zero/Jamie Thomas) put Satan, Bin Laden, Pentagrams in graphics and ads while also using Jesus, bible passages, and crosses? Is this sending a mixed message to kids who are at a very impressionable age? Is he confused? And why are Satan, devils, and pentagrams in general just so damn appealing to kids? World, Blind, 151, etc.

I can't speak for Jamie or what he's thinking, but I've never microwaved any fruit. I've heard stories from people that have though. There's a large disparity in the philosophy of someone who will preach the word of God to a crowd of young skaters after a demo and then use dark, negative imagery like skulls and pentagrams to sell his products. But then again, Christians have always been fascinated with death and evil. Don't steal, but steal. Fuck and don't fuck. Rape a pig's face. Help a child learn to read. End your sentences on a positive note!

Big Brother has had its share of religious content over the years. Whether it be theme issues, ads, articles, and even the skaters themselves. Any standouts or memorable things to you over the years? Was it for shock value's sake? To be informative?

When we asked Bill Pepper if he would kickflip over a pile of burning bibles for the cover, he kind of wanted to, but ultimately he said no. He thought he'd go to hell if he did. Steve Olson wasn't opposed to it, though, so we lit them on fire and he ollied over them. I've heard that he wish he hadn't and is going to blame us if damnation be his sentence. Rick shot it and he too decided he was going to hell and so became a Christian for a couple of weeks which as far as we can tell “washed it off.”

Isn't using religion to sell products why society persecuted people like Madonna and Marilyn Manson, Rocco, and Big Brother magazine in the past? All did it artistically and creatively, and I have enjoyed all of them at one point or another, but many people had major problems with all of these individuals and their use of religion in their art.

Have you ever seen a frog on a lily pad? He may croak and scream and yell and try to tell all the other frogs how cool his lily pad is, but no one hears him because every one of them is trying to tell the next one that his lily pad is the coolest. But they're all just floating on their own lily pad which all look pretty much the same. Have you ever seen two frogs on one lily pad?

Why do you think religion is so frequently used? Other belief systems or lifestyles aren't always so common. There isn't as much promotion of alternate sexuality, or other social issues like politics, or the environment, or human rights, etc? To take it a bit further, other than the Rastafari thing, why haven't companies marketed Judaism, or Hinduism, for example? Are none of these as “cool” as Christianity?

When we were kids we invented our own religion. It was called Yoli Vedi Shaun, or YVS. In hindsight it was really weird, but cool kind of weird. It had something to do with Yoda and the Shaw of Iran. It didn't really catch on.

Anything else you would like to add to the topic?

Has there ever been a culture that worshipped raccoons? I think it would be cool to worship raccoons.

Sean Cliver
March 2003

Sean started his email response with the following:

You have every right to hate me... —œSean

Can you think of any graphics or ads through the years, religious or sacrilegious, that you liked or disliked? Favorites?

The 101 Natas “Satan” graphic is one of my all time favorites and if anyone has one in mint condition they'd like to sell or trade, please contact me.

Whose ideas were/are many of these types of graphics? The pros? The artists? The company owners?

I blame Hollywood. Is that the right answer?

Is religion/spirituality in skateboarding as just another way to sell boards by throwing religious images or figures on them? Or by using passages from the bible in ads, etc? Is it a way of expressing beliefs or cashing in on something that is supposed to be sacred and deeply personal?

You know what bugs the crap out of me? Seeing “John 3:16” on placards at professional sports games. I mean, c'mon, have some respect for the players. Jesus ain't watchin' the games on a Jumbotron in heaven or anything, so it's not like you're buying points with him.

Do you think it is a shock value, “rock ‘n roll” type thing or is it the sincere belief in religion and the desire to share that with the skaters?

I guess if I believed in something to a fanatical degree I may want to spread the word as well. But I don't c'est la vie. In the end it's just detrimental to your image should you finally come down off your ideological high and then have to listen to your random followers cry, “Heathen!” at the top of their pre-pubescent lungs. Keep the Church and State separate, or at least the thought that it is.

Why would someone (Zero/Jamie Thomas) who is into “God” put Satan, Bin Laden, Pentagrams and skull board graphics next to graphics of Jesus and crosses in their board lines and ads? Is this sending a mixed message to kids who are at a very impressionable age?

Let's face it; skulls and pentagrams just look fucking cool. A white dude with a beard and sandals just ain't gonna get the kiddies hot to drop their quarters on him.

Is it “right” to use religion to sell products anyway? Isn't this why society persecuted people like Madonna and Marilyn Manson, Rocco, and Big Brother magazine in the past?

Is it right for religion to dictate wars and who is bad and who is good? They're just pissed because they aren't getting that 10 percent royalty in their holy coffers.

Is it sacrilege to skate a board with Jesus on it—ruining his image and so forth by sliding it on ledges? Would one beat up their bible or rosary beads, for example, in such a way?

Well, they are called “Bible Thumpers,” aren't they?

Why do you think religion is so frequently used? Other belief systems or lifestyles aren't always so common. There isn't as much promotion of alternate sexuality, or other social issues like politics, or the environment, or human rights, etc? To take it a bit further, other than the Rasta thing, why haven't companies marketed Judaism, or Hinduism, for example? Are none of these as “cool” as Christianity?

Hey, you can't discount the first Ron Chatman model on World Industries. That one was Hindi to the hilt! I just think there are two many arms flailing around with Vishnu to make a clean graphic—it's hard enough drawing two of them as it is. And Ganesh, shit—uh, that's crap, I mean—you can't touch an elephant head without someone mistaking it for a Vallely deck, so he's out, too. Christianity just has the benefit of clean graphic design going for it.

Having drawn some of these types of graphics you seem like you would have a different perspective. Is it just “art” and “fun” and not to be looked at so seriously? Remember the stigma attached to the Satan 101 deck? Some pros swore it was cursed. I think a few got injured riding it?

I know! That's so spooky, huh? What's funny is that I heard one skater, I think he was skating the 101 Gabriel Rodriguez “Jesus” deck actually skated across the surface of a lake. No shit or fooling! But even more recently, a kid on a Zero deck with a cross on it, he died trying to SS/BS/TS this 20-stair rail. But you know what? Three days later he rose from the dead, went back to the rail and nailed the trick! I think it's on a 411 somewhere!

Anything else you would like to add to the topic?

I'd just like to say thanks to all the people who have supported me throughout the years. Y'all know who you are and if you don't know then you didn't care and neither do I. So big ups! Or downs.